with Lana and Ivan Rados

Why the sacred plants medicine ceremony with Ivan and Lana Rados are different than what you may have experienced when compared to other similar ceremonies.

A medicine ceremony is usually performed by a competent, highly trained and experienced shaman who has long experience with the power medicine plant that they work with. Shamans use sacred songs, prayers, mantras and sacred rituals to assist and support the participants by creating a sacred space for their spiritual journey and healing on many levels: physical, emotional, mental and spiritual.  The power of the shaman and his or her mental and spiritual purity will affect and enhance the potency of the plant medicine to shift, uplift, heal and spiritual illuminate the participants.

Ivan and Lana are not traditional shamans. Lana is Psychologist and psychotherapist and Ivan is Meditation Master and Spiritual guide. They work is based on conducting the energy through the witnessing consciousness from the Astral plane of existence. I have seen them both shifting the energy, changing the moods in the room, coming to people in their most crucial moments to guide them to go beyond their obstacles and imitations, and to take them deeper into healing, deeper into their interior purities of being.

I have participated in Magic Witnessing Ceremony and went to Ivan’s Wild Zen for three days, and I have seen all the miracles and profound healing those two divine souls can manifest. I have seen Ivan’s astral body coming out of his gross body and performing many miraculous things. His physical body was in deep stillness and meditative state, and his astral body floating among participants healing people, I could not believe my own eyes. He was here and there at the same time. I asked Ivan how he does that, being in two places at ones, and this is the short part of a long conversation that follows.

I.R. One must move withinwards and be grounded in its own innermost core. The journey with spirit plant medicine can make access to the astral plane effortless and it can prolong the journey, by loosening the tension of the mind and consequently bypassing controlled thinking.

A.T. Yes, but how do you manage to do that?

I.R By witnessing consciousness. You cannot rely only on particular spirit medicine to take you where you want to be and what you want to experience.

Until you shift your attention from the physical realm into the etheric, you will continue asking ‘How?’. There is no how in existence, there is no space between physical and etheric dimension, or etheric body. The Etheric Body gives energy and vitality to the physical body, down to cellular structure, to the atomic level. Witnessing starts from this dimension, awakening the consciousness to the principles of spirited, energetic, and dynamics, Pranic, Ching, Quantum, Electromagnetic…

There are many luminous, glowing planes, in other dimensions, densities and parcel realities, with many luminous bodies and the different energetic compositions that are constantly moving and overlapping each other, in terms of frequency, function and behaviour. It all depends on your consciousness, your intent, your ability to use your mind and its ability to visualize, and decide what kind of strings of vibrating energy can be utilized in certain forms all in order to traverse across the Universe and other dimensions. So, awareness of the energy in etheric plane is important for development involving our life, our health and overall our physical makeup.

The astral body is even more subtle then etheric body. We can say that physical plane is the atom and when we break the physical atom its most subtle particles are etheric. Similarly, beyond the etheric particles are more subtle particles, astral particles. The physical, the etheric and the astral body is connected and influenced by the mind. The more subtle the body, the more it is influenced by the mind. The more subtle the energy, it is nearer to the mind. This is why astral traveling is possible. Now, when you are using your mind instead of being used by your mind, the consciousness can create and be created, then the consciousness opens portal to even higher, more subtle planes of existence. That is why witnessing meditation and conscious intent is crucial in growth and expansion of your being.

When I was 16, I managed to separate my etheric and astral body from my physical. I was able to be at three places at the same time. It is just matter of a little practice.

The power of the mind is great, and it becomes more great when it is used by the consciousness. The powers of the mind grows more and more as you become witnessing consciousness in deep meditative state of being, with the feeling that you are alive, and right where you have to be, right now, you go even deeper inward. The power of the mind dissipates, becoming unconsciousness, as we go further outward into the world of circumstances, causes and consequences and got attached only to physical.

Witnessing meditation is going inwards, and the attached mind goes outward.

A.T Can you teach me a method to access the astral in my awareness?

I.R. There are many methods to learn conscious astral projection. For example Yoga Nidra is one where you consciously keep the mind active but under the precise instruction and control from the consciousness while the body falls asleep. It’s tricky, because the body and mind are linked, and if one fell asleep the other has to follow.

With his method you break the link between your body and your mind, so you take the body into a deep states of sleep and relaxation, while your consciousness through witnessing becomes free to explore the multiverse through the emptiness of the mind. In this meditation method your body enters sleep state, and you simply “roll” out of your physical form, and travel with the astral body. Ancient yogis would use two frogs and tie them together before meditating. While tied together the frogs would continuously croak and a tantric yogi would use the sound to keep the consciousness present. As the body drifted into deep sleep, yogi will leave the body behind and astral travel through the empty mind.

A. T. ‘In group ceremony I witness you shifting your astral body and performing healing on some individuals. How do you decide whom to visit? Can you visit anyone in that state.’

I.R. Yes, with their permission.

A.T. Who is giving you permission and how is that possible?

I. R. Consciousness.

A.T. I saw you helping others and I wanted you to come to me and do the healing but you ignored me. I was mentally begging you, hoping that you will hear me, but nothing. At one point I gave up calling you and I closed my eyes. Immediately I got pulled into some dark corner of my psyche, going into some dark scary forest… I was choking with fear…, and at one point, I could hear the voice saying ‘Don’t go there. Navigate your journey through breathing.’ I opened my eyes and you were there smiling. How did you know?

I.R. I don’t know how, but I know. It was my intuition linked with my conscious intent. Awareness with intent destroy barriers and mental impurities, and with the meditative perfection, the physical, the mental and the spiritual power awakens that performs the healing. I am not doing the healing, the consciousness does through the power of intent, together with the feeling of deathlessness.

A.T. I like your philosophy.

I.R. It is not a question of philosophy, nor of any theory, because it is not mental concept, but the feeling of deathlessness and being grounded in it. Through the feeling of my immortality everything becomes possible.’

A.T. Can you elaborate more.

I.R. Consciousness is always grounded in awareness. Awareness of what? Awareness that you are. You don’t know what and who you are, but you have knowingness that you are. You are accessing that knowingness, not through your thinking, but through your feeling that you are. When you access that feeling you immediately enter the knowingness of your immortality and your eternity. When you are with that feeling and it’s that knowingness, everything becomes possible.

A.T. Wow!

I.R. When you die, your visible body will disintegrate and the mind will detached itself from it by releasing its thoughts, so the body will go back into the elements and the thoughts will melt into the consensus holographic reality, but you, the essential, the existential you, the witnessing consciousness, will stay forever right now and here.’

Immortality is available only through the feeling that you are. Thinking that you are is finite and feeling that you are is infinite. Knowingness is beyond thinking. You know that you are alive. How do you know? You don’t know how, but you know. Can you hear or see yourself? Can you connect to yourself through thinking? No! The more you think, you are further from your real self. You connect to your real self only through the feeling that you are. You are in love only through feeling, not through thinking.

A.T. Is the plant medicine a crucial element in separating your astral body from your physical body?

I.R. Not really, but consciousness is. What plant medicine does is maintaining that astral state for a longer period, without the mind interfering with its thinking, that is usually infused with anxiety and fear. Also, what spirit plant medicine together with witnessing consciousness in deep meditation does, is opening the dimensional doors and the subtle energetic portals to access other bodies on the higher plane of existence, not only astral body, but mental body, non-dualistic body, cosmic body…’

Imagine a burning lamp as your consciousness and then putting a coloured filter over the flame. The burning lamp will not appear very bright. Then put another filter with different colour, and another with different colour, and another…, placing seven filters over it. Look at the burning lamp from the outside. What do you see? Almost nothing. The light will be extremely dull and dim. Your consciousness becomes very dull and dim by passing through seven layers of your mind, and by the time it reaches the physical body and for teaches to it, you cannot have much control over your life.

The subtle form of the physical is the etheric and more subtle part of the etheric is the astral. Then comes the fourth body, the mental body. You cannot see your mind, it is invisible like air always moving, so you cannot see it, but you can feel it. When atoms of physical are broken they become etheric atoms, and when etheric atoms are broken, they become of the astral atoms, and when the astral atoms are broken they become thought patterns that moves as waves. When you think a certain thoughts you form a certain mental pattern that start effecting all other planes of existence below. The thoughts vibration around you change accordingly effecting the reality you live in. So, if you are used by the mind the mental body becomes your instincts, and if you are conscious and using your mind, then the mental body becomes your intuition.

Beyond mental body there is a non-dualistic body, where the mind becomes a no-mind, it becomes an open flute where the divine plays the music of cosmic proportions. The most crucial aspect of Astral travel is to watch your mind. By watching it, you are containing it, and the mind doesn’t becomes flux, it becomes the opening, the emptiness. By watching your mind, a non-dualistic body ignite the cosmic body to go through all other bodies below. The cosmic body is pure space, no self, no being that is bliss. Your real body is cosmic. Cosmic body contain a no-self, that is your pure self, your being that is like a nonbeing. Beyond the cosmic body is the wholeness. The wholeness is not one individual body but the body of oneness. It is pure nothingness where everything is as it is.

A. T. What about dreams?

I. R. We all have two realities where we live in consciously or unconsciously. So-called awake state is the first reality, and beyond it is the dreaming reality. When you are attached to the mind, that second reality becomes mixed with the first reality creating entanglement and complexities. You think during the day and you dream during the night, right? Unconsciousness and thinking together creates dreaming, while unconsciousness without thinking is called sleep. People are in deep sleep. When consciousness uses the thoughts it creates so-called awakened state, and when consciousness is present without thinking is transcendence, the real awakening.

We in the western hemisphere value more so-called awakened state than the eastern hemisphere where dreaming is more important, more authentic, and more real. Why is that? In dreaming state there is no fear, no repression and no inhibition. You mind is flowering, it is becoming open, flowing flute, playing the music of consciousness. Thinking is the first state of the human mind and dreaming is the second state. The first state corresponds to physical body. The second, dreaming state corresponds to invisible body which we know as subtle body. One is material, particle like body, and the other is energetic, wave like body. The matter is outside of existence and the energy is inside of existence.

We all live in two realities simultaneously. In the outside world you live in your visible, gross body, and when sleeping, you live in inner, subtle body. You move from one body to another body all the time, and you die moving from one birth to another birth, from one life to another life. It is a process, inevitable process where you are learning on how to attain the third body, the Astral body. The attainment of astral body opens the doorway onto another three bodies, Mental body , Non-Dualistic body and Cosmic body. You have three bodies, physical, etheric and astral below and three bodies, Mental, Non-Dualistic and Cosmic above. One triangle pointing downwards and another triangle pointing upwards. The whole point is to reunite two triangle into Mercaba, re-unite all your bodies in your consciousness, transcend them and go to the seventh body, which is not the body, but the transendence of all bodies, the wholeness, the centre of existence, to real self that is beyond – awareness, nothingness. Unless you are aware of all those bodies and detaching your consciousness from them, unless you are capable of that through the meditation, you will be moving in a circle, coming back to this earth and being born and dying again and again. If you can become aware beyond these two sets of three bodies, two triangles, one female and another male, only then this vicious circle of life and death will cease and you will attain the truth and be free. Meditation can make you aware of that essence and spirit plant medicine can enhance that connection and make you easily transcend.

Magic Witnessing Meditation is training your consciousness to see all those bodies and dis-associating yourself from any experience that any of those body can create. Buddha used the word mindfulness for meditation. So, you become mindful of all the aspects of your being. You become mindful of all the things that those bodies controlled by the mind, prevents you to transcend, to attain awareness of another bodies in order to attain your ultimate healthy and freedom. We are to use our bodies. We are here to think and experience but we are also here to be mindful. Mindfulness means witnessing and doing nothing. It means accepting your mind and allowing the consciousness to flow and transcend itself.

Look at the experience, see it as it is without judgmental mind, and simultaneously be conscious that you are seeing that experience. Do not forget the one who is experiencing the experience. Point your consciousness to the experience and at the same time point the same consciousness to the one who is experiencing the experience. You are asking me the questions and you are listening to my answers, now continue doing that, but be aware of the one who is asking the question and of the one who is listening to my answers. Just be conscious. That is the secret.

In our magic witnessing meditation I asked people to do whatsoever, to allow any experience , any process to unfold, to embrace all things coming from different bodies, different states of the dreaming mind, but I asked them that they remember the doer, the dreamer, the one who is thinking, dreaming and experiencing.

Thoughts are moving in the mind. Do not stop them, do not control them, just look at them, witness them, observe them and remember that you are just a witness, not a thought.

Our Magic Witnessing Meditation with spirit plant is the easy way to transcend any body, and go directly to real self, or no-self, the awareness of who you really are.

A. T. How do I know that I am in astral plane?

I.R. You know it because you can see your body separate from you. Your Astral body was standing behind mine when I was doing healing on Jim.

A.T. I was not aware of it.

I.R No you wore not aware of it because you were dreaming.

You know that you are out of your physical body because you are looking at it, you are conscious of it. Usually your mind cannot see your physical body, it can see only parts, like arm, leg.., but to see the complete body you have to be outside the body. You have to be conscious of it and at the same time conscious of the one who is conscious of it. You see, when you are dreaming you are not conscious of your dream and the one who is dream. First, you need consciousness to move from unconscious thinking. Under the influence of spirit plant medicine, your conscious thinking moved towards conscious dreaming. That is OK. Remember, there is no radical change between conscious thinking and conscious dreaming because your consciousness is not free. Yes, it complements overall experience, but there is no radical change because it will follow the same pattern of the thinking mind. By being conscious of your body, looking at your body sitting in meditation posture and being conscious of the one who is looking at the body is witnessing consciousness. There is no thinking there. If the thinking comes then either you are in thinking consciousness or in dreaming consciousness and if that is the case, the consciousness of the one who is thinking or dreaming is suppressed, lost, not present…, then you are not present in your astral body.

From that space of being conscious of both, the physical body and the one who is conscious of it, you can move around your own body, you can go though your own body, you can go everywhere and nowhere.

Another thing. I said previously that through the feeling of your immortality everything becomes possible. By being aware in your astral body you know that the body is not you and when you die to your physicality, you body will be left behind, just like a butterfly leaving the cocoon behind, and you will stay present in your awareness. Also, you can see the mind functioning as a mechanism. You can see its beliefs, definitions, barriers, obstacles…, you are the seer, not the mind and its obstructive thoughts. You are witnessing consciousness, neutral to experiences. So, in the astral plane of existence you have knowingness that you are not an appearance, you are the essence of the universe, you are God itself, you are free, you have knowingness of your immortality and your infiniteness. In the astral plane the fear of death disappears. If there is fear, then thinking or dreaming will suppress consciousness and you will be pulled back into your physical body.

We all say, ‘Love heals.’ That is right, but love can only heal when the fear of death disappear. You cannot love by being surrounded with the fearful mind. Remove your mind from you and all the fears will be removed, giving space for love to heal. You have to know that love and fear cannot exist together. Love is healing force only when you have transcended your own fear of death.

A.T. Nothing can paralyze me as fear does. The fear block all the functions of my brain, causing me to freeze and be emotionally overwhelmed, and totally blocking my consciousness. Bob Monroe a researcher into altered consciousness who is credited with popularizing the term “out-of-body experience” and who is considered to be the founder of the modern approach to the astral projection, once said, “Fear is the greatest barrier to human growth”. Is he right?

I.R. Everything in life has its own place, so everything can be used for growth, even fear. But also, everything can become an obstacle… it depends. Life is always changing, shifting and moving from one situation to another situation, from one moment in Now to another moment in Now. You are not the same even for two consecutive moments in Now.

To carry fear on your shoulder one moment of now after the other moment of now is not good. It is like carrying a deep open wound and not healing it. What is the fear? It a fear of death! In witnessing consciousness you know that you cannot die. You are infinite. In witnessing consciousness you know that the mind can die, because the mind is nothing else than the compensation from not being real you, for not being conscious that you are. You are giving power of consciousness to your mind to think for you. If you are not conscious, the mind will be conscious for you. The mind is conscious because of your attachment to it. Remember, mind is in fear of dying. Mind is basically fear, always concerned about certainty, security, safety. Mind doesn’t like insecurity, and for that reason mind cannot be love.

Now, behind any fear is love. Behind any anger is compassion. Behind any conflict is peace. If you go into any negative thing you will always find the positive. So the union of the opposites, positive and negative, the third, the transcendental happens, the ultimate happens that is the witnessing consciousness. If you exclusively follow the fear, then the whole life becomes paralysed, you are possessed by thinking; and if you exclusively follow love without being aware of fear behind it, then the whole life becomes projection, you are possessed by thinking. Real love contains fear in itself but it is more than the duality, it is non-dual unconditional love.

If you are afraid of looking into a mirror, it is not the mirror you are afraid of, but your own fearful face reflected in it. You have to face the mirror. By facing the mirror is in a way an act of love, because love contains the trust, the trust in your own original self.

Every experience is beautiful, good experience if you learn about yourself through it.

The mind converts everything into two, positive and negative. Fear and love is one, unconditional one Love, ultimate Love. The energy is one but you call it either darkness or light. Life is one, awareness in itself, but you call it by two names: life and death. Impression exist in duality, and expression is consciousness seeing duality as complimentary. When the mind surrendered to witnessing consciousness, the very phenomenon of duality disappears, then impression becomes conscious expression, then one feels one with all that is, one with the trees flowers, rocks, clouds, sun, sky… Then one ca safely travel with astral body through multiverses. There is no fear in conscious expression, just the purity of unconditional love and beauty for all. Love is also your protection against hurtful energies and lover vibrational entities that may come along your astral travel.

Now, if the experience is beautiful and not fearful, or opposites, fearful and not beautiful at the same time, then it is just imagination, it is impression, the impurity. You see, beauty is love, and when there is love and fear together, it is real and you are expressing yourself and learning about yourself. The astral travel is not for those who are trill seekers, or for those who are seeking pleasures and entertainment, but for those who are ready to heal their archaic, karmic wounds, and challenge themselves to learn real and unlearn unreal. In conscious expression you are growing and expanding in consciousness.

Imagination is always one sided, either positive or negative, while reality is paradoxical, illogical, with both polarities together. Mind always creates a consistency, that’s why mind prefers a linear, one sided reality. Now, under the influence of the spirit plant medicine, together with witnessing consciousness, you are lifted into other planes of existence, into other bodies you are usually not aware of, and if you only have fear without beauty, then you are in possession of the mind, you are dreaming, then the astral travel become nightmarish dream, and you are damaging yourself, and you are damaging your mind who will give you hard time in your life.

The life itself is very inconsistent, changeable all the time, from one extreme to another extreme. Life exist through contradictions. If you are really alive you will feel death too. If you feel great happiness you will also feel great sadness. This the way of consciousness. This has to be so in order for growth to happen, and create the situation that the mind becomes empty allowing you to travel with consciousness.

Love is and fear is not. Fear is nothing else than the absence of love. If there is fear, love is not. Love is consciousness; fear is the mind, and unconditional love is purity of awareness, beyond mind, beyond consciousness, no-self, no-being, just wholeness, just oneness. When fear is not, then love is. When mind is not, then consciousness is. When consciousness is not conscious of anything else but only of itself, then awareness is.

Who are you? Life is very paradoxical. If you think, the mind is, and you are not; if you are conscious that you are, without the thought of ‘I’, ‘me’ and ‘mine’, then mind is not and you are. And when you totally disappear, when you drop your self, you are awareness. In awareness there is no one who is aware, just awareness is, the wholeness. You see, when you are not, only then you are. That is the ultimate truth. Buddha’s calls the ultimate truth ‘nirvana’, and ‘nirvana’ means disappearance. Disappearance of what? The disappearance of you. When your controlling mind disappear, under the influence of spirit plant medicine, and no-mind appear giving pace for consciousness to witness other realities beyond the physical, you enter nirvana state. Now you can experience your divine no-self in infinite ways.

A. T. I love this man. I did not have an opportunity to talk to Lana and get her own perception about Astral healing and her own work with the spirit plant medicine, but I asked Ivan, where Lana fits with all of this, as she is scientist, trained Psychologist and Psychotherapist? He said, ‘In our daily life I am more male oriented and she is more female oriented, but in our plant medicine witnessing consciousness meditation ceremony, we switch the roles, where I become more feminine and she becomes more masculine, but overall we are not, only awareness is.’

Thank you Ivan for enlightening conversation.

Antony T. Vancouver


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Posted in Healing, Meditation, The Middle Point.